I have been known to drop the line “We aren’t going to work forever” around my family and friends, but they definitely don’t take that as we are going to exit full-time work in the next 25 years. They think we are on a pretty typical path right now – the infamous Earn More to Spend More cycle. Up until recently, I have left our ultimate plan off the table but decided to take a leap faith.
For me, opening up about our plans is a consistent internal battle. “What if one of them would embrace this path?” vs possible negative reactions, jealousy, judgment (both them judging us and thinking we are judging them), etc, etc, etc.
Putting the negative thoughts aside, for the first time ever I dropped a major bomb on a family member that our plans don’t have us working full-time passed the age of 40. Even though our FI timeline says I will be closer to 42 – we are going to make 40 happen. Don’t kill my dream.
The person I was talking to is intelligent, has a well-paying job, and invests regularly. We have talked money multiple times and while our investing philosophies are different I have enjoyed all our conversations and find them productive.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but the conversation didn’t tread into the area I hoped. I was hoping for some interest. A how, what, why, or at a minimum “tell me how you’re not batshit crazy” would have been cool with me.
Instead, I was hit with a look that I wish I had a picture of. Somewhere between confused, disbelief, and skeptical. There was an eagerness to crap all over my parade, and if you know me, you know I don’t like parades, but if I do attend one they better be crap free.
When FIRE Meets Water
Before going any further, this is not a “look at how dumb people who aren’t pursuing Financial Independence or Early Retirement are” post. I want to look at the mindset that gets ingrained into peoples brain from a very young age. Unless you grew up in a special FIRE household, we all watched our parents, neighbors, and peers seek to display wealth instead of actually build it.
The conversation only lasted about 20 minutes, but there was a full out explosion reasons it can’t be done. I have conveniently laid them out below for your viewing pleasure.
Lifestyle Inflation is a Fact of Life
Not too much of a surprise here, but the Earn More Spend More engine is still churning strong. The list of things that should inflate with earnings is not short but always starts with the two big ones. Houses and Cars.
“You guys will look for a bigger house and get nicer cars over the years.”
Exact quote. Which is a little ironic considering our downsizing in home size from our first to second home and the fact that a car from 2001 currently sits in our driveway.
This is not out of the ordinary however, it is one of those things that people just do. More money means you can take on more debt and still “afford” the payments. You watch everyone around you inflate and want to be part of the crowd. Unfortunately, that crowd battles month-in, month-out with their bills.
Overestimating the Sacrifice
“I’m not willing to give up everything we are doing now”
Tying in with the Assumption of Lifestyle inflation, the perception of sacrifice is blown way out of proportion. I spend a lot of time interacting with and reading about other peoples Financial Independence journey and I don’t know any that feel like they are sacrificing things that are important to them.
Mindful spending has the opposite effect in my experience. Spending more on the things you actually care about and enjoy is empowering. Everything else feels like a waste of time, energy, and money.
I don’t feel like I am sacrificing anything. We live comfortably and the small sacrifices can’t hold a candle to the time and options this life buys us.
Ironically this conversation took place on a boat, on a Monday, with beer present. Such a rough life 🙂
Underestimating Investment Gains
“How do I know what my money will grow like that?”
Totally understandable. If you have never seen something happen personally it seems far-fetched to believe it will happen to you. I had a hard time embracing the unknown when I first started reading about investing.
That being said, after the first impulse of rejecting the unknown, we need to embrace other peoples experience and research. The information is there, the models are there, and most importantly the community is there. People that are willing to help, for free and show the path themselves. Along with all the mistakes and setbacks along the way.
The biggest downfall of this one is you can’t afford to “wait and see”. Get in as early as possible and stay in forever. The longer you wait, the less chance your money has of doubling. Time, like always, is your enemy.
The “Impossible” Mindset
Anyone said or heard these before?
- We can’t max out our 401K
- We can’t save 50% of our income
- It’s impossible to retire early without an inheritance or windfall
- We aren’t willing to sacrifice enough to make major improvements in our finances
- We will never get out of debt
I have thought each one of these things, but thankfully one tiny spark ignited a curiosity that has developed into our current situation. We haven’t knocked all these things off yet, but are closing in on the majority of them.
We aren’t unique and I truly believe that just about anyone can do this, it may take you longer, your road might be more difficult but rid yourself of the impossibility mindset. It is a dangerous beast.
Why I took a shot
As I alluded to in the intro, this constant battle between opening up or staying stealthy rages on. I would feel bad if in X number of years we stop being anonymous and share this site only to realize there was some interest and we could have supported/pushed people forward. I hope this person keeps our conversation in the back of their mind. No one can give you back the time.
Good post! We haven’t shared a ton but the people we have shared with so far have been very receptive and supportive. It helps that I know my brother is planning to retire at 55 and my parents wish they could have retired four years ago.
I generally don’t bring it up unless someone else does, but lots of my friends know I have the blog. If they read it I am pretty sure they know my plans.
I just don’t know about their reactions always…
Glad to hear the reception is positive for you!
I don’t think I will be sharing the blog with anyone soon – not until it is a bit bigger or I have enough money not to care what my employer thinks.
Some close friends and family know about my blog but I’m staying anonymous for employment reasons also. Don’t want to have to explain trying to retire early on a future job interview.
Good post. I call this the “perpetuating capitalism” debate. My eyes were most widely opened when we’d travel to foreign countries, and I would catch myself wondering …”why aren’t all these people striving for their 4th, 55inch TV!? They seemed very happy existing without even one. My other gradual “aha moment” has come over the years, since we chose not to have children. While I want to make a difference and find meaningful work, my end goal is not to leave a large inheritance to someone else. I notice that is a BIG deal to many people. So I’d rather not wait to start life projects that I really want to work on, and I can also use some of this time to re-tool. At 50, I’ve known too many people that ended up running out of time, much sooner than they might have anticipated. So you also make a good point about the time thing.
Buying time is definitely my focus – even if I am still working I prefer it to be on something I care about instead of “accomplishing” projects that don’t do anything for me.
I would rather leave the knowledge for other people to do this themselves than a huge inheritance
My mom retired early (I was 8!) and still thinks this movement is not realistic. She also went back to work and is now going to collect a second pension. Ha! She is someone who legitimately enjoys work, but I also think she enjoyed it a lot more the second time around knowing she didn’t have to. Long way of saying people we love can be weird about FIRE!
Nice!!!! I can see that being the case, the choice to do something alone is worth a lot – maybe work sucks sometimes because I HAVE to be there. Time will tell!
I love the last paragraph that says you don’t want to regret being anonymous with your plans only to find out that your experiences could have helped someone close.
Yea – its a tough thing to navigate. I have younger siblings ad the thought of not at least sharing this knowledge troubles me. I could save them decades…..
Sometimes I want to tell my father-in-law mostly so he will stop talking about all the new luxury cars he buys (but has a loan). I think he believes he is bragging but I know they can’t afford it.
I’ve been open to my family about minimalism and frugal but no one knows I have a blog yet. My wife keeps telling me to tell my dad but haven’t yet. I’m not sure if it will change what I say if I think he might be reading.
Until then I just keep dumping more into the Roth and 401k excited about FIRE!
Yea – I wonder how family members would respond to some of the things I have written. Could make for a few awkward situations – but my guess is that the majority will check out the site, click around a bit and move on without looking back.
Keep on chucking cash at those accounts!
I’ve let the frugal cat out of the bag a few times and there have been mixed reactions. People are really touchy about money and, for some reason, get touchy about how you spend YOUR money. I prefer to live by example instead of telling friends/family/coworkers/strangers how to live. If they’re interested, I’ll explain how I’m doing it, but if not, I drop it. Maybe it’s not the best way to educate people, but why push something on someone who’s resistant to living differently?
It wasn’t really a push situation, more of a this is something we are pursuing/gauging reaction to see if they have ever thought about it. If anything the pushing/judging was coming the other direction.
It’s hard to fight the urge to share information, especially with the people closest to me – probably be awhile before I do it again.
It’s funny (not funny) how we can sometimes see differentness as somehow ‘wrong’ or ‘impossible’. Even now I look at some of the other FIRE bloggers in our community and wonder how they did it – even the ones who generously have shared how they did it and have answered directly my questions about their experience somewhere in my mind I make up justifications on how they did it and I haven’t yet (inheritance, high income, dual income, lucky break etc.) . Sometimes I think when something seems very difficult to achieve or we feel we’ve left it to late, we quickly look to devalue or mitigate the idea that it might be very worthwhile as a way of defending against the pain of having not. I think it’s good you brought it up with your friend, it might just plant the seed and if not, it solidified your own desire even more.
I’ve gotten the same reaction. I’ve found that older folks take the “lifestyle inflation is a fact of life” argument into a condescending direction. Sort of a “Oh, you’ll see your naïveté soon enough.” And usually from people that know that I think everything through extensively and that trust my judgment in most things.
This post really struck a chord.
My favourite part, please excuse my paraphrasing…”mindful spending, and spending on the things you actually care about and enjoy is empowering”. That is so true, but hardly anyone I speak to who is on the traditional work till you drop mindset seems to get this.